Why Financial Advisors Should Collaborate, Not Compete with Stoy Hall

Listen or watch on your favorite platforms


Stoy Hall is the Founder & CEO of Black Mammoth, a Modern Family Office, and host of the NOB$ Wealth Podcast. He’s recognized by Investopedia as a Top 100 Financial Advisor in part due to his dedication to helping women and minority business owners, entrepreneurs, and employees achieve true wealth, and for his commitment to ‘ridding the world of financial illiteracy’.

In this episode, Stoy talks about the importance of teaching financial literacy to children, the grind of wealth building, why alternative strategies are critical (including investing in oneself), and why financial advisors and planners aren’t actually in competition with one another.

Please enjoy our conversation with Stoy Hall.



The Investipal Podcast is produced by ⁠⁠⁠www.investipal.co⁠⁠⁠. Past guests include ⁠Peter Lazaroff⁠⁠Douglas Boneparth⁠⁠Jamie Hopkins⁠⁠Tyrone Ross⁠ and many more.

Follow us on LinkedIn: ⁠www.linkedin.com/company/investipal⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠www.linkedin.com/in/cameronhowe/⁠; Twitter: ⁠www.twitter.com/camhowe16⁠ | ⁠www.twitter.com/investipal⁠; Tiktok: ⁠www.tiktok.com/@camhowe16⁠ | ⁠www.tiktok.com/@investipal⁠; or Instagram: ⁠www.instagram.com/investipal/⁠

Find Stoy Hall at:










Key Takeaways:

  1. Financial literacy is severely lacking, especially among younger generations and the non-wealthy. There is a huge gap in proper money education through schools, media, and influencer content.
  2. Building financial literacy from an early age is crucial. Stoy talks openly with his kids about money, has them earn income through jobs/chores, and requires they invest half of what they make.
  3. True wealth building is a grind - it takes perseverance, smart decision-making, and a long-term mindset. Getting rich quick is unrealistic.
  4. Diversifying into alternative investments like real estate, business ownership, and entrepreneurship can lead to exponential wealth growth beyond just stocks/bonds.
  5. Financial planners should focus more on comprehensive planning than just investment management to provide maximum value to clients.
  6. The financial advisory industry needs to increase collaboration, not competition, to improve accessibility and financial literacy for the masses.
  7. Having a well-designed financial plan that aligns your money with life goals is more important than chasing hot investment returns.



00:00 Introduction and Background

03:17 Recognizing the Gap in Financial Education

05:05 Turning Point: Investing in Financial Literacy

06:09 Teaching Financial Literacy to Children

08:13 Investing in What You Know

10:03 The Grind of Wealth Building

12:05 Instant Gratification and Misconceptions about Wealth

19:29 The Value of Financial Planners and Collaboration

24:05 Changing the Status Quo in Financial Planning

26:28 The Need for Awareness and Collaboration in the Industry

30:24 Shifting to a Flat Fee Model



Cameron Howe: Hi everyone, welcome back to the Investipal podcast. My guest today is Stoy Hall. Stoy is ranked by Investopedia as a Top 100 advisor with his own firm, Black Mammoth. He's also the host of the No BS Wealth podcast. Stoy, I'm pleased to have you on today.

Stoy Hall: Well, thank you. Yeah, it's fun being a guest. And I have to do all the background stuff. So I appreciate having me.

Cameron Howe: Yeah, you're just giving me a hard time right before we hit record, intentionally giving me awkward silences. So if anyone sees that, just know it's intentional. So, you know, maybe where we could kick things off. I'm curious just to hear your background on how you got in as a CFP and into the wealth space.

Stoy Hall: It's on purpose. We did it on purpose. Yeah, absolutely. And then everyone can obviously you'll Google me but I say the same story over and over again. I'm born and raised from Omaha, Nebraska. I'm in Iowa now for now. Knock on wood. But I grew up with a family that really wasn't financially literate or lacked education in the financial sense. We survived, right? My mom took care of me. I was an only child. She was a single mother. And that was great. But there was no talk about money, there was no growth in that, it was just paycheck to paycheck, like the majority of Americans live. And I knew growing up that I wanted to get out of that situation and help others. I've seen it, I've lived it, let's do it. So luckily enough, I went to Drake University, played football, go bulldogs, and really started to figure out that accounting wasn't it. My first accounting exam was like a 40%, so we're not doing that.

We need to figure out a different way in finance. And I love math and it came like investments were cool, how the economics work and how business financials look. And I coupled that with working at the Boys and Girls Club for four and a half years and recognized that we have a huge gap in our financial education system, both from a schooling perspective and in just the public and the media. There's a huge disconnect. The ultra-wealthy get it, they have a team, but everyone else is kind of just left to luck.

Cameron Howe: Not about that, yeah.

Stoy Hall: And so I knew I wanted to help. Most like us, we all get in insurance first. So I started in the insurance world, became managing partner within a year and a half, then got my series licenses - I had all of them at one point, series six, 63, 65, 724 and 26. Had all those and really started to hone in on financial planning and recognizing that a plan matters more than anything else. And I got scolded a lot for not doing life insurance first, life insurance, life insurance. It has its moment, it has its time, and it is very important and everyone should have it. We're not debating that. But the plan itself matters more because it might dictate when we can do things and what we should do. And at that point, regional director and I didn't see eye to eye. And so I left and joined a firm which is now called Centric down in Houston with those guys. Those guys are amazing. And they really got me into the RIA space and understanding that like, with compliance, BDs and insurance brokerages you can really do a lot of things. And you get paid for your advice, you don't have to get paid through a product. And I was like, well, that's cool.

And then as we grew, and everything happened, I really wanted to build a practice that was more designed around the family office where I quarterback everything. And so I launched Black Mammoth in 2020, still partnering with those guys, those guys are amazing. But I wanted to have a firm that was designed around minority and women business owners, who are ready to take that next step, who need a team in order to be whatever that next goal is for them. And that's what we do every day. And that's how I got into it. I love it. I also hate it. I will say it again, I loathe our industry. The money industry is very bad in all the bad ways and good in all the great ways, if that makes any sense to anybody. And I really mean that. And that's why I have the No BS Wealth podcast, we want to bring full transparency to everyone and talk as much as we can about money, because I believe that's where we're weakest at, at least in America, but the world is we don't talk about money. The only ones who do are the ultra-wealthy, and they're off in planes and boats and yachts and stuff, chatting about this. The rest of us, we don't. It's like we shy away from it.

Cameron Howe: Yeah.

What do you think that switch was for you? Like you mentioned you grew up in a financially illiterate household and obviously school probably played a big role in that, but what was kind of a turning point for you where you're like, this is the career I want to go down? I want to become financially literate and change from how I was brought up.

Stoy Hall: Yeah, it triggered more for me like what actual career path was in college, when I was at the Boys and Girls Club and teaching about money and just getting all this data of how no one knows what's going on. And luckily, being intelligent enough and loving math enough, I could help. But at a young age, it was when I finally had saved up enough money to go buy my mom an ice cream cone from McDonald's. And on the way out, a friend of mine scared me and I crushed it. But it also crushed me because I didn't have any more money. I didn't have a way to get more money to go buy my mom another ice cream cone. And from that feeling through learning what I learned in college and working multiple jobs is that I didn't want to feel like that again. And I don't want others to have to worry about not being able to afford another ice cream cone.

Cameron Howe: So is there stuff, I know you mentioned right before that you have two young boys, is there stuff that you're introducing into your household now to get them up to speed and become financially literate early on?

Stoy Hall: Yeah, absolutely. We talk about money openly all the time. They do have jobs, there's chores. And then there's also jobs. Those are different - chores are things like brushing your teeth, making your bed. Jobs are more like cleaning the toilet bowls, taking out the trash, doing what I say. And from there, they earn money. And then from the money that they earn, half of it has to go into investing. And half of it can be used however they want. And instead of taxing them, I'm not really wanting to teach them about taxes yet. I'm doing that in terms of taking 50% off the top to be invested. So it's a win for them. And then I let them choose their investments - right now Netflix is huge, Disney. I think he got Disney at like 130. And he's like, I hate Disney now because it's at 97 or something like that. And I'm like, so then we talk about investing every month.

Cameron Howe: Fair, fair. You should watch it more and help boost the thought process.

Stoy Hall: And when things go lower, you want to bring your cost basis down. So those are all the great things that we get to teach and live with. And it's just openly talking about it. I know that my wife's family never did either. Like these conversations just aren't half-had.

Cameron Howe: Yeah, I remember I feel like I didn't necessarily grow up with it, but I remember my dad always filling me in on all his trades that went sour. And it actually had the opposite effect for me. I'm like, I don't want to invest ever. I don't want to lose my money. And I think it wasn't until college where I did a 180 on that. I said, no, money is where the money is. So let's focus on that. And it's also to your point, a big area of improvement globally to make people more aware of this.

Stoy Hall: Absolutely.

Cameron Howe: You do raise an interesting point. So, the way you're educating your kids is essentially instilling in them investing in what they know, like Disney and Netflix.

Stoy Hall: Yeah, I mean, I grew up in Omaha, right? Debatably one of the best investors ever with Warren Buffett. I remember getting candy. One year he gave out $20 bills for Halloween. And he always gave out the king-size ones, the biggest things you've ever seen. Anyways, so I learned a lot obviously growing up of that value and that concept of, if you use it, you should invest in it, right? Because that means other people are.

Cameron Howe: Oh really?

Stoy Hall: And so I’m a big proponent of just value. And that's really how everyone should think too. If I'm using that item, why wouldn't I want to invest in that company, right? To a degree, right? There's some companies you just shouldn't. But like, so we try to instill that so they can see those brands, they can see what's going on. And then we can flip that and go do research on, you know, what the chart looks like, what the fundamentals look like, and try to teach them, you know, the basics of a stock really.

Cameron Howe: Yeah, I wish I followed that. Like I have an Nvidia GPU sitting right here and I don't own the stock, unfortunately, and they just beat earnings and I'm kicking myself.

Stoy Hall: I also own one too and I also did not. So it happens.

Cameron Howe: We'll get it later. It reminds me of like the AMD trade where AMD eventually took over from Intel quite a bit. And hopefully there's a couple more laggards that lift the boat.

Stoy Hall: There's always going to be one that pops no matter what. There's always one or two every year. We'll get there, no worries.

Cameron Howe: Well, yeah. So switching gears a little bit, you know, what do you ascribe wealth to? You obviously deal a lot with small business owners, a lot are probably high net worth. Is it a luck factor? Is it a perseverance factor that you think plays the biggest role in it?

Stoy Hall: Biggest role in wealth building and wealth building for me leans more towards your happiness and ability to do things that you want to do, not necessarily a dollar figure. To build that, it's just a grind. It's a day-to-day grind. And for me being an athlete, I just route it back to athletics, right? In football, we would train for eight months out of the year, eight and a half months out of the year, to play a three and a half, four month season. Your opportunities and games - there's 11 games, 11 to 13 games. And that's kind of the same way in life - you're grinding and practicing doing everything all year round, your whole life every day waking up making decisions for those minimal opportunities that happen every year to start to get ahead or to get ahead or to double or whatever. And so it's a grind, you just have to keep going. The wealth journey is a lifelong journey. You'll never make it to the end because you die. As long as you can make it and keep grinding and be ahead, then hopefully you leave a legacy of some kind. And to me, that's winning. The ability to be happy, live life how you want, and then leave the legacy that you want. And that also could be leaving $0. That's fine, too. Just whatever you want to do.

Cameron Howe: Yeah, it was very rarely ever an overnight success story. Always behind that, there's years and years of either training, if it's an athlete, or time spent burning the candle, trying to build your own company up before people actually say, where did these guys come from?

Stoy Hall: Absolutely.

Cameron Howe: So with that, what do you think young people are getting wrong today about it? Like I talk a lot with people in the space and I think a lot of it has to do with instant gratification. Do you think that plays a role in it? Do you think that the younger generation is not properly thinking through and becoming more impatient with how they treat their finances?

Stoy Hall: I wouldn't say it's just a younger generation thing. I think that's just us as humans, specifically in America, we're worse than everyone else, just how we operate. So I wouldn't say necessarily it's a younger thing. I would think it's more driven by our media. And I do mean media from a perspective of, if you can go to politics with it if you want, but literally just media in general. Because we always put so much weight into investments and getting returns. And the bigger the returns, the more you get and just this feeding this negativity around money - I need to be getting 10%, then that 10% turns into 3x and 5x and 10x, and all of that is very unrealistic. If you look at it over a long-term period, I think the S&P is at like nine, nine and a half over a 30 year period. That's awesome. We're talking about people who want to see 100% return in a couple of months. They want the AMCs, the GameStops. Those are not real. Those really hurt more people than they do good. And then it all comes down to because we care more about investments than we do how to invest. What do I mean by that? I don't care if you came to me and said, I will guarantee you a million percent return per day for the rest of your life. If I have zero dollars to put in, thanks, awesome. I love those numbers, but zero still times a million a day is zero. And we focus so much on what we can do with the little amount of money we have as opposed to making sure all the decisions are made correctly in the front end, so we can actually have a bunch of money to invest, then go invest. And I believe that's where we get it wrong. And that's where the instant gratification comes from.

Cameron Howe: I thought it was, you know, we launched Investipal as a byproduct of the GameStop and AMC craze a few years ago, because I had a lot of friends, I used to do this professionally as a quant guy before this, and a lot of people would be like, gosh I wish I invested. And I remember my sister being like, Cam, I'm buying this ETF, the ticker's COW. And I really like cows. Andrea's going to listen to this and text me screw you. But just the thought process that people were putting into it was a herding effect on someone going and doing this and they're promoting it. Then everyone I know is doing it as well, so I should participate. And it creates this bubble of financial illiteracy, fueling this gambling epidemic. I also find it interesting with sports betting, you know, it's legal now and in Canada at least, every single ad whenever you watch sports, there's like 500 betting companies throwing ads up, getting people to participate. And I chat with some of my friends, they're like, no, I throw like a hundred bucks on a few games though. And they're now equating wealth building to gambling, which I find crazy.

Stoy Hall: Yeah, no, I agree 100%. And that craze is a whole another issue in itself. But it is now turned into a value-add, something you do over time. And this has a lot to do with the fact that it's easily readily available to trade. It used to be where you have to call a stock broker and they have to literally call in a trade, which takes time and peace of mind that you don't have to look at it. But now that it's trigger finger, I can go make a trade right now if I wanted to while we're talking and it takes me less than a minute or two. It comes in, feeds that financial illiteracy, it feeds that instant gratification and it just keeps feeding this game right now. And it is now investing has turned into a game. And I believe our industry needs to really grasp it. Investipal's doing that as well as really grasping that, focusing more on the education and saying investments are just a tool. They are not the end-all-be-all. They are just a tool in order to get to where you want to go as opposed to I should only be doing this to get to where I want to go.

Cameron Howe: So with that in mind, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on alternative wealth building strategies for people that's outside of the norm of just continually contributing to a 401k or an IRA account.

Stoy Hall: Alternatives are amazing. I hate the word "alternatives" because really, if you look at it, traditional investments end up being stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. That's only three things. Alternatives are literally everything else. So it should be looking a little flipped - because everything else is an investment. You're talking about real estate, currencies, cryptocurrencies, investing into businesses, investing into yourself and your health. Every other type of investment is what you should be doing, with sprinkling in the traditional side. I would rather have you spend more time on your physical health, mental health, and business than shoving $5,000-6,000 a month into an index fund. That's the alternative way to think about things. You're building things kind of backwards if you just throw everything into traditional investments. Because we're all taught to just always throw in as much as you can into those. Should you be investing in those, 100% take advantage of your 401k matches, and all those benefits. But when you talk about the rest of it, you need to look at investments as a whole. One, we all know real estate is one of the best investments that has ever been and will always be. And that can be broken down into a lot of categories. But that's true.

Plus, investing into yourself, you can't really go wrong with that, right? Your happiness and your body matters because it's the only asset that you have that you really can fully control. And then dabbling into the other things that pop up (like) friends businesses. The ultra wealthy do this all the time. They invest in each other's businesses or go jointly into a business. They're they're not as much heavily involved with the regular stock market as you think.

They just do that as a byproduct to everything else they're doing. Right. And from those, those can continue to grow forever. Those turn into crazy, you know, multiplications of 10 X, 100 X, right? That's what businesses do. Those are the types of alternative mindset things that you want to get into. And that goes away from traditional banking too. There's alternative ways to get funding for real estate projects, for business ownership and whatnot, there's always another way.

Cameron Howe: Right.

Stoy Hall: It's just a matter of knowing who knows how to do those other ways into being okay with having to learn something that might be uncomfortable, right? Because it's not traditional. So you can't just like, Google it and learn it like that. And you haven't been taught that it's going to take a little extra step. And so alternatives, the way to go, ultimately, but again, like I said, I think the alternatives are actually traditional. And should all be involved with everything you do

Cameron Howe: So I imagine that moves away from the standard CFP training, maybe not on the real estate side, but do you ever sit down with someone and they're debating going back to school and you treat that with them as an investment into themselves, and that student loan they might have to take on, while it's technically a liability, it truly is actually like an asset for them?

Stoy Hall: Yeah, absolutely. And it's funny you say that with the CFP, when I passed in 2018, we didn't have behavioral finance in there. Behavioral finance is now in the CFP. What I'm talking about is more behavioral finance than it is traditional, whatever words you want to use. Our decisions, the way we make them, and what really matters to us as a person is more important than what is being fed to us from the media or social media of, you need to be doing this or you're behind the eight ball. A lot of my clients come to me and always feel like they're behind the eight ball. Where does that come from? Where does this feeling of being behind come from? It's your life, your goals, and how you want to live it. That's something no one else on this earth has the same goals, mindset, and stuff like that. Well, probably because there's a billion of us, but you know what I mean?

Cameron Howe: Mm-hmm.

Stoy Hall: There's not that normal thing like I should have $2 million at retirement. Okay, for what? But why? So focusing more on how people's behaviors and things are really trying to backdoor you into saying, invest in yourself. Yeah, okay. Go back to school. What does that number look like? What are we going to get out of this? What's our return? We can turn it into numbers as well.

Cameron Howe: I do think, you know, double click on that. It's very interesting though. You know, you, there's this old saying of keeping up with the Joneses. And then now that is keeping up with social media influencers where I don't know what your feed looks like. Mine is like hustle culture, like times a thousand where if you're not grinding constantly, if you're not 25 with a private jet, you have failed in life. And like that creates that, am I doing not enough?

Stoy Hall: Seriously. Right. Yep.

Cameron Howe: Or like at the other end of the spectrum, I should already give up because I didn't, I'm not as successful as like Mr. Beast is, and he's the same age as me.

Stoy Hall: Correct. Yeah, all the time. And it, and for me in my position, it sometimes disgusts me where I fall into it, and say, well, what's the point of me posting? Right? What's the I get 10 likes, they get 2 million, and they're spewing crap. And a lot of our industry does that same thing. It's like, man, we are grinding every day because there's not enough financial planners out there, specifically CFPs in the world to take care of the amount of people in the world, let alone the United States. There's like 19,000 of us. That number is there's a what, over 130 million adults. The numbers are not there. We don't have enough. And so when you see influencers pop up and do these things, and you're like, I know there's a lot of people that follow them and think they can get rich quick, or lose 30 pounds in five days, or whatever they are. And it just kind of disgusts you and puts you on the back foot, like you had talked about.

And that's not fair because that's not real. Our social media craze and ability now has really warped how all of our industries should operate. We have to play that game. If you don't get in that game, then what are we doing? Our duty is to help people. If you can't get into that social media game and you let all the influencers do it, guess what, they're not regulated. They don't have licenses and the SEC crawling up their butt all the time. How do you protect them?

Cameron Howe: I find it very interesting that like I have, like I speak with a lot of people just like yourself every single day, and it seems like there's more and more advisors who are like, okay, I need to expand my practice now and start going where people are, which is social media. And it's creating this new wave of content that is actually well-informed content. It's not, you know, hold on for dear life, investing, buying AMC and pumping it up on WallStreetBets. It's like actually creating short-form content or having a podcast that you do, talking about how to think about your investing strategies and how to build wealth over time and making it more accessible in terms of like the CFP training for individuals away from the shilling and the gambling aspects that the original influencers introduced into the system.

Stoy Hall: Absolutely.

Cameron Howe: So, you did raise an earlier point. There's, was it 19,000 CFPs in the US? Okay, I'm gonna quote you exactly. There's 19,000 exactly as of 2024.

Stoy Hall: I think, don't quote me, I don't follow those stats, but yeah, okay. Here comes the silent treatment.

Cameron Howe: Um, you know, you guys, for the most part, operate a practice that seemingly competes with one another, regard, maybe like geography-wise, it is a bit more specific, or sometimes, you know, there's you focus in on small business owners, typically underrepresented. So like there's the niches that get carved out within that. But do you view the spaces in competition with one another, or it's more of a collaborative approach and trying to actually help each other build up your practices?

Stoy Hall: It should be collaborative. Back to the numbers thing, there's too many people out there that need our service. Right? Our industry loves to think we're in competition because I actually don't know the real reason. It's just the way it's been. But there's too many people for us to service, not to carve out where people actually like you. Right? Because the thing is, clients have to like you, your personality, what you're about, more so than what you actually can do. Because that's how it works. Right?

And so if you can build that relationship, well, guess what? I believe that a true planner, and I'm not talking about people who do investments only, about planners, max. And we talk about this all the time with our group, like 60 to 80 clients, max. One advisor, one planner can take on right now. If you grow a team and all that, multiplication, but one of us can take on six to 80, depending on your service model. Me being a family office, I can't. I can max at 46. That's 46 people out of millions. That's like, there's not even a drop. Like that's so small. And so who is my real competition? It's not other advisors because it's not. I want to help as many people as possible. The ones that like me, want to work with me, cool, let's do that. So our competition is all of those influencers. It's social media. It's algorithms. It's everything else, not being able to be heard and in front of the right person at the right time.

Cameron Howe: So you think it's like a lack of awareness of what you and other CFPs are able to offer and trying to collaborate to increase and penetrate across the entire US?

Stoy Hall: Yeah, because we don't know what definitions of financial advisor, financial planner, registered representative, like all of those get thrown out there. And what are the public supposed to know? Like, what's the difference? Well, registered representative is someone who works for, you know, usually some BD or life insurance agent, and they push more life insurance. Financial advisors, traditionally someone who does investments, maybe a little planning. Financial planners, CFPs, that's when we get into more advice across the board, holistic. They don't know that. So they all think we're one of whoever they run into. And you're gonna run into life insurance agents and people who want AUM a lot more than you're gonna run into a planner, right? And that's an issue. That's a problem, like a huge problem.

Cameron Howe: Yeah, it's interesting. And are you doing anything to change that status quo? Like if you come across another planner and they're a little bit combative, like, is there a way to bridge that divide?

Stoy Hall: I don't know. There's anybody, go to Twitter, type in FinTwit, do FinTwit, financial fees, or AUM fees, or something like that. You will see just anarchy chaos. We fight about it all the time between being charged AUM, which is a percentage of your assets, versus fee-based, whatever model you want to go with, retainer, monthly, whatever. It happens all the time. And it sickens me because it's like, I don't care what you charge or how you get paid. It's more about what your service is. I do not believe today's day and age that you need an investment advisor to tell you where to put your money. Now, some people with a lot of money, it's different. If you get into alternative space, yes. But traditionally speaking, you can pretty much get away with the research you have and not get charged 1% to 2%. Let's be real about it. Now, if they are doing that, plus they're doing planning, plus they're helping build your business and all of those other things that planners do, then yeah, that value is worth it. But if it's just purely investments and they're sitting on it and you talk to them once a year and they push a button, well, they didn't push many buttons anymore because auto-rebalance happens. So like, where does that value come from? And that is where our industry is lacking very much. So we cannot explain transparently our value to people. And that is the hardest thing for like my business and some of my colleagues are focused on planning. A lot of our value is intrinsic. It is blue sky. It's emotions. It's being there for you. Like how do you explain that value on a piece of paper? Like I can't do that.

Cameron Howe: Right. And do you think there's a natural pivot with that model then to move away from a traditional like AUM fee to more of like a flat fee model?

Stoy Hall: Yeah, you do. And I'm, you know, I'm not a tax expert, but also part of our, if you go the flat fee, we are tax-deductible. So that helps. I do believe so in that we move that way because a lot of them also don't just do investments. Like they don't. They're not the ones giving advice on investments. They'll hire that out or build out a portfolio for them to self-manage. Personally, right? Had a hedge fund, I used to do day trading, did a lot of trades, used to build every portfolio possible. And then I started to realize, when I've been talking about, there's value there, but investments are investments. And the other ones, alternative stuff, is where your time needs to be because it takes time to vet, it takes time to move the money and educate people on what to do. And so I do see that more planners who are doing more holistic planning are going to be more monthly retainers, subscription models, then they're going to be AUM-based.

Cameron Howe: Mm-hmm.

Cameron Howe: Yeah, I've heard that, you know, like individuals have become so much more educated now on just, you know, DIY investing where it used to be pitching funds to people, and now it's the client coming to you where you have to explain why you put them in a specific sleeve of the S&P 500 over another one based off of fees or what have you. And it becomes a much more difficult conversation, or to your point, it does probably have to shift more to where's your value? Is it lying on the planning side? Is it lying on the private asset world, the alternative asset world, where there isn't that widespread knowledge like there is in the equity markets now?

Stoy Hall: Yeah, absolutely.

Cameron Howe: Um, so I think it's a very interesting conversation. Um, maybe we'll leave a pin in it there. Um, how can people find you and listen to your podcast?

Stoy Hall: Yeah, everywhere. We're literally everywhere. My marketing team's like, you are on too many social media platforms. I even got kicked off Reddit. So like, I'm everywhere. Seriously, go to Reddit, go to www.blackmammoth.com. You can go to www.nobswealthpodcast.com in about a week and a half or whenever this comes out. It probably will be out because well, a website there. But seriously, any of the social platforms, go look up No BS Wealth, look up me, Stoy Hall. I'm out there. I love to communicate. So if you have questions, something I've been trying to get more people to do, just engage. I'm here to have a good conversation, specifically publicly, right? It's fun. Let's do that. Let's learn. Let's teach. But you can always hit me up on all of those. I'm here for you.

Cameron Howe: Okay, wonderful. Yeah, we'll leave a link in the show notes for anyone interested as well. Stoy, let's do this again soon. It was a pleasure having you on.

Stoy Hall: Absolutely. I'm down.

Watch our other podcasts